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    Live: India, in real time

    India is a country on the go; at any given moment in time, there is much happening in the fields of politics and governance, of finance, of development; there is constant churning in society, considerable activity in sports and in the arts... It's almost too much to keep track of. And hence, this effort: a real-time, constantly updated look at the events that matter. Refresh this page for real time updates

    7:30 pm:
    In an attempt to wipe out the menace of honour killings, the Supreme Court said such killings should be stamped out ruthlessly and asked states to suspend district magistrates and SPs concerned if they failed to act against the offenders.

    7:00 pm:
    As protest against the Jaitapur nuclear plant turned voilent, Environment Minister Jairam Ramesh accused Shiv Sena of politicising the Jaitapur nuclear power plant issue and frequently changing its stand on him on environmental issues. More on this story

    6:00 pm:
    You think prices are going through the roof in India? Check this out: In China, burial plots now cost as much or more as luxury apartments. It is no laughing matter, actually -- the poignance of the situation is best reflected in this quote:

    "I cannot afford to buy a house while I'm alive and now cannot afford to buy a grave for when I'm dead," commented one user on the portal dayoo.com hosting a discussion of the subject, while another added bitterly, "So now we cannot sleep peacefully even after we die?"

    5:45 pm:
    In a column in DNA this morning, film-maker and writer Harini Calamur argued that much of the responsibility for curbing corruption vests with us -- the "civil society" that is currently on an anti-corruption kick. Giving that column an urgent resonance is this piece in the Hindustan Times that looks at Jantar Mantar in the aftermath of the Anna Hazare-led fast. The money quote:

    "A 21-year-old Delhi University student who was a part of the anti-corruption protests said, "I had the time of my life. We shouted, we sang. It felt like I was part of something, a movement. Like the ones in West Asia." His fingers twiddled with the iPod in his hand. On being asked where he got the MP3 songs for his portable music player, he nonchalantly replied that he downloaded them. When asked if he considered illegal downloading as copyright infringement, he said he did not think so because "music is meant to be passed on and all musicians are rich."

    But music piracy is corruption in its own right. A 2008 Ernst & Young survey says loss to the Indian music industry due to piracy is Rs 143.8 crore ($325mn) a year.

    A popular group on Facebook which had only days earlier pledged its support to Anna Hazare's cause, recently posted asking if anyone knew where to download a certain movie. When someone pointed out that it was piracy, the poster justified it by saying that it was a relatively unknown movie and he did not know where to get it.

    The same E&Y report said that movie piracy costs the Indian film industry Rs 424.3 crore ($959mn) and 571,896 jobs.

    So, does our skewed definition of corruption justify our treatment of it?"

    5:30 pm:
    There's something to be said for being a geek. Did you know the young Bill Gates once contracted to write a class scheduling program, and managed to get himself programmed into an English class with 12 girls and no other boys? That, and other fun stuff on the Microsoft founder, from the book Idea Man, written by Gates confrere and Microsoft co-founder Paul Allen. And here, courtesy Vanity Fair, Allen tells the story of his partnership with Gates, and its dramatic 1983 ending.

    5:10 pm:
    Pakistan batting legend Zaheer Abbas, whose decimation of India's famed spin attack still gives some of us nightmares, wants a stadium built straddling the India-Pakistan border, reports Dawn. “Build a stadium at Wagah border so that there are no problems of India not coming to Pakistan, and Pakistan not going to India,” Abbas is quoted as saying. Great -- now all we need to figure out is where the Line of Control falls. Midwicket, maybe? And would you need a visa to field at fine leg?

    5:00 pm: Seventeen persons were feared killed when a Pawans Hans helicopter with 23 people on board caught fire and crashed into a gorge while landing in Tawang town in Arunachal Pradesh. More on this story

    4:50 pm:
    We take a break from India for a moment, to bring you this story that has a snake, and an Eve, in it. Oh, and a heroic Adam, too. What struck us about this little snippet from Reuters is how the story has been framed, the language used, et cetera. Apparently this Kansas woman has an eight-foot snake which managed to get its teeth sunk into her neck, necessitating a brave cop to come and pry its fangs apart and release said woman. What we really love? This bit, which says the woman "was visibly upset" because she couldn't get the snake off her neck. No s**t, Sherlock?!

    4:40 pm:
    Aaargh! Today is not a good day for India, comparisons-with-China-wise. We just heard that India had lost the "English advantage" -- and now it seems we've lost the art market as well to, who else? China. Which, we are told, has 15 contemporary artists in the top 50 list, followed by the US with 12. India has, um, one. Yahoo has the story

    4:35 pm:
    In the constant -- and constantly evolving -- game of who's better at what being played out between India and China, here's the latest: China has overtaken India in the English Proficiency Index. And thus, says Reuters on its blog, India is poised to surrender one of its great competitive advantages. Here's the relevant clip:

    "The implications for India's future IT and outsourcing prospects aren't difficult to calculate.

    "For the past six decades, India has been coasting on its colonial legacy when it comes to English. But without the systemic changes needed to ensure greater penetration of the language, the advantage has been shrinking," the Times of India, India's biggest-selling English newspaper, wrote in an editorial on Tuesday.

    As Chinese authorities ramp up English teaching in schools across the country, looking to tap into a growing international outsourcing and IT market, India's public education sector has been criticised for poor facilities, falling standards and a lack of government support."

    4:30 pm:
    If Anna Hazare wants the deliberations of the Lok Pal Bill drafting committee videotaped, how can the Shiv Sena be left behind? We want our home video too, goes the party -- demanding, now, that the post-mortem of the victim of yesterday's police firing in Jaitapur be videographed. They don't tell us why. And no, we are not making this up. See?

    4:25 pm:
    Oh hey, in the IPL, Deccan Chargers won the toss against Delhi Daredevils and opted to lose a wicket in the second over. Here's the action, live

    4:22 pm:
    Kunal Guha is seriously puzzled by Zindagi Na Mila Dobara. No, not the film itself, but the 'washboard abs' (When last did any of you see a washboard that boasted 6 clumps of muscle, by the way?) flaunted by Hritik, Abhay and Farhan. Here's his take and no, we don't know yet what kind of midriff the women in the flick are sporting -- stay tuned for updates. Maybe.

    3:30 pm:
    With India being hot (no, that is not a reference to the weather, but to the, um, hotness quotient of the country in international perception), it is no surprise to see all kinds of research and studies and such. Yet this one, which we spotted on Twitter just now, took us by surprise. Betty Zhang says: "tuesday morning, learning about the Holy cow in relation to women in colonial India... wondering if I can cough up 5000 words on this topic?" The holy cow in relation to women in colonial India? Do us a favor, Betty, when you get that 5000-worder done, send us a copy?

    3:00 pm:
    Now something on the Bengal elections: Election officials have said that there was record 84.11 per cent turnout in the first phase polls. Polling was held in 54 constituencies in six districts on Monday. The turnout surpassed the previous best of 82.77 per cent polling in the 2006 assembly poll. More on the story

    2:40 pm:
    Top shuttlers Saina Nehwal and Jwala Gutta weigh in on the World Badminton Federation's latest diktat (which has attracted the use of words such as 'sexist' and 'retrograde', besides inviting accusations of objectifying women) that all women badminton players participating in international events should wear skirts. The consensus among India's top shuttlers seems to be, we have no problems personally, but hey, you can't force everyone to show leg.

    2:30 pm:
    Subramaniam Swamy (the Janata Party president whose name statutorily has to be prefixed with 'maverick' or 'enfant terrible' or some such) tells Anna Hazare -- or more accurately, tells reporters to tell Anna Hazare -- that the activist is being surrounded by "bogus" NGOs, and that  "the basic error of Hazare was to keep the politicians out. His team should have some politicians." Which is a fairly roundabout way of telling Hazare that he needs to get Swamy on his team, no?

    2:15 pm:
    Indian authorities have detained a ship and are questioning its six crew members and two security guards. The crew of MV Danacia Sunrise was intercepted by Indian Coast Guard vessel Subhadra Kumari Chauhan on April 17 at 10 PM and its crew has now been questioned for over 36 hours by a team of Mumbai Anti-Terrorism Squad and Intelligence Bureau officials. IBN LIVE has the story

    2:00 pm:
    In his preview of today's IPL game between Delhi Daredevils and Deccan Chargers ("two teams looking to get their campaigns up and running"), Akshay Iyer points to the Dale Steyn versus David Warner face off as being among the key battles that will decide the course of the war. Which leads to a little uh-oh moment. Here's what Dale Steyn (@DaleSteyn62) posted on our Twitter timeline just now: "Ahh we all joke bout the world famous "Delhi Belly"..... Well it aint so funny anymore! Bog I mean Big match 2day, beta hav my game face on!" A little under two hours for the game to begin -- we're keeping our fingers crossed Steyn ain't bowling from the loo end of the ground.

    1:45 pm:
    So we are sick and tired of hearing how stupid our politicians are. And so we decided to show you what 'stupid' can do when it spits on its hands and really gets down to business. So -- here goes: There is this Democratic Congressman, the Rev Jesse Jackson, who not so long ago mooted an amendment to the US constitution that, among other things, would lead to each schoolchild getting an iPad, Kindle, or Nook. Good idea, no? As Jackson himself said, "Let me be clear about a few things. These devices are revolutionizing our country — and they will fundamentally alter how we will educate our children." So, a month down the line, here's Jackson -- the April version -- again, this time arguing against the March Jackson, if you will. The thrust of his argument: The IPad has triggered unemployment in the US. Because it allows anyone to easily download books and newspapers, it causes people working in bookstores and in the publishing industry to become jobless. And China, which makes the IPads, benefits. Oh, and Jackson is totally against Chicago University's mooted plans to become 'paperless' by providing every student with an IPad. Here you go -- listen to the mother of all about-faces:
    1:30 pm:
    The Shiv Sena moves in mysterious ways. For evidence, consider the Ratnagiri bandh of today, called to condemn the police firing on those protesting the proposed setting up of a nuclear power plant in Jaitapur. The 'protest' against violence turned violent, with a Sena mob attacking, of all things, the district hospital and damaging its post-mortem wing, besides setting assorted buses and other vehicles on fire. Presumably, this is the "heavy price" Shiv Sena executive president Uddhav Thackeray said the state government will have to pay for the firing. (See also our update from 1.05 pm)

    1:15 pm:
    Let There Be Light: An Asian Development Bank video tells the story of how solar-powered lanterns are changing lives in Orissa's impoverished villages.
    1:05 pm: Jaitapur update:
    The family members of Tabrez Pehekar, who was killed in police firing a day earlier while protesting the Jaitapur nuclear power project, have refused to claim his body. They say the police official responsible for ordering the firing on the protesters should be suspended first, an activist said here Tuesday. Here's the story

    1:00 pm:
    Actor Shiney Ahuja, convicted by a fast track court and sentenced to seven years' rigorous imprisonment for raping his domestic maid, has filed an appeal with the Bombay High Court challenging the verdict. NDTV reports that the high court has admitted the plea and posted a bail hearing for April 27.

    12: 50 pm:
    @indiandiplomacy -- which, to state the obvious, is a Twitter handle through which the Ministry of External Affairs updates us on all matters relating to Indian diplomacy -- tells us that the Embassy of India, in Qatar, celebrated India's April 2 win in the ICC World Cup. We are delighted. And puzzled. Did we, right here in India, get to celebrate the win? To line the streets and throw confetti on our cricketers as they drove past in an open motorcade (The BEST had even kept open top buses ready for such an eventuality?) To throng the Wankhede Stadium, or some other suitable venue, to cheer our cricketing heroes? Did the cricketers get to bask in their achievement, to delight in our applause? No? Why not? Because the BCCI, which manages all things cricket in India, couldn't be bothered to respect the achievement, to give the cricketers their moment in the sun. Yeah, there was the IPL beginning a week after the World Cup win -- but still. One day. One lousy day to celebrate a signal triumph -- was that too much for the cricketers, for their fans, to ask for?
    12:40 pm: The Supreme Court today deferred its hearing on the issue of legalisation and decriminalisation of gay sex among consenting adults in private. A bench headed by Justice G S Singhvi adjourned the matter without specifying the date of the next hearing and said the same would be taken up after summer vacations. The apex court was hearing a bunch of petitions filed by gay rights activists and also by political, social and religious organisations, who have opposed the Delhi High Court verdict decriminalising homosexual behaviour. Read more on  Yahoo!

    12: 30 pm:
    Okay, you heard it here first: The Shiv Sena will be in fashion next winter. Or at least, the party's signature color -- orange -- will. Apparently a bunch of international designers have decided that orange is going to be hot in winter -- and, but naturally, a bunch of Indian designers are following along. Here's a fashion tip, straight from the story:

    "So, even if you have plain high-necks, t-shirts and sweaters in neutral colours, you can jazz it up with an orange scarf, orange footwear, orange belt or just some accessory in orange to stay in vogue."

    Orange shoes? Seriously?


    12: 15 pm:
    Former president Dr A P J Abdul Kalam calls for research, development and implementation of a green energy solution.The continuous depletion of fossil fuels oil, gas and coal reserves as well as the fluctuation in the price of crude oil has made energy independence imperative, he said. "The India-Dubai Energy Platform will be a mission-mode partnership with about USD 700 million funding which would stimulate research, development, marketing, deployment and maintenance of customised and cost-effective solutions in the green energy domain for the two countries," Gulf News quoted Kalam as saying.

    12: 05 pm:
    So sometime later this month, top US military officials will fly to Islamabad to meet with their Pakistani counterparts to try and 'resolve' the 'deadlock' in relations between the US and Pakistan, which have 'fallen to a new low' in recent weeks/months. Okay -- do tell us how that one works out. Meanwhile, Pragati editor Nitin Pai warns us all of the danger in our midst:

    "The fact is that the military-jihadi complex is an implacable strategic adversary that is resolved to destroy India. In the short term, it must be contained. In the medium-term it must be dismantled. Ultimately, it must eliminated."

    Okay, but just what is the military-jihadi complex? Nitin explains, in his latest column.


    11:55 am:
    Shane Warne credits Estee Lauder moisturizers for his fit-and-fresh look. We are happy for the ageless Rajasthan Royals captain and guiding spirit. Doubly so, because of what happened the last time he wanted to look good. Back in 2003, remember? When he ended up taking a diuretic, and copped a 12-month ban?

    11: 50 am:
    The oldest toothache in the world is 275 million years old? Ouch!

    11: 30 am: Andy Flower is wanted by India but England are keen to keep hold of their coach.
    England cricket coach Andy Flower is among the few who have been reportedly shortlisted by the BCCI for the India job left vacant by Gary Kirsten , prompting a worried ECB to offer the Zimbabwean a new three-year deal.

    According to 'the Daily Telegraph', Flower, along with Duncan Fletcher, are among the shortlisted candidates for the post vacated by Kirsten after India's World Cup triumph.


    11:15 am:
    Our 10 am update told you of Siddharth Mukherjee, the New York-based oncologist who has just won a Pulitzer for his book The Emperor of all Maladies. Here, for your leisure reading, is an excerpt from the book, courtesy publishers Simon and Schuster. And here, courtesy New Yorker, is a review of the book. Both links courtesy our favorite book-person, Nilanjana Roy (@nilanjanaroy on Twitter). An excerpt from the review:

    "Mukherjee’s book has the vividness of an insider’s account. It evokes what it feels like to be at the forefront of modern biomedicine and to bring new knowledge and technologies into the clinic. Take Mukherjee’s account of Sidney Farber in 1947, waiting for his first supply of the antifolate drug aminopterin and watching a two-year-old leukemia patient’s condition deteriorate as another drug failed: The patient “turned increasingly lethargic. He developed a limp, the result of leukemia pressing down on his spinal cord. Joint aches appeared, and violent, migrating pains. Then the leukemia burst through one of the bones in his thigh, causing a fracture and unleashing a blindingly intense, indescribable pain.” Mukherjee can also summon up the texture of previous systems of understanding, even of what it must have been like for Halsted to feel that he was right. It’s hard to think of many books for a general audience that have rendered any area of modern science and technology with such intelligence, accessibility, and compassion. “The Emperor of All Maladies” is an extraordinary achievement."


    11: 05 am:
    Sathya Sai Baba, who has been undergoing treatment for multi-organ dysfunction, continues to be in a critical condition, doctors attending on him said. "His vital systems including liver are showing minimal response to treatment, which is a cause of worry to the treating doctors," a medical bulletin issued this morning by the Sathya Sai Institute of Higher Medical Sciences said. Meanwhile, the Sri Sathya Sai Baba Central Trust (SSSCT) has denied media reports of diversion of funds or any other unauthorized expenditure. While we await the next update, here is an interesting read, courtesy Open magazine, on the question of succession.

    11:00 am:
    Last week, orthopedic specialist Dr Arun Mullaji of Mumbai's Breach Candy Hospital used an IPod touch to perform a knee replacement surgery, says India Today. And here we were thinking the device was good only for storing Justin Beiber videos.

    CALLING READERS: So hey, on this live blog, we curate in real time the goings on in the world around us. Come be a part of the project: If you see an interesting story, send us the link to indiaeditors@yahoo.in and we'll publish it in this space. Got an interesting photo to share? Same email link applies. Got suggestions on how we can improve this further? Ditto.


    10: 50 am: Quake Alert:
    The United States Geological Service reports a quake, intensity 4.5, on the border between India and Myanmar, with its epicenter about 75 km East-South East of the Manipur capital, Imphal.

    Blatant self-promotion: Hey, so this 'Live Blog' thing is an experiment in real-time news, and very much a work in progress. We are delighted by the positive comments on Twitter, in email, and just now, in the comments section. 'Keep updating', says a reader in comments. We intend to. 18 hours a day. 6 days a week. Stay tuned and again, thanks. 

    10: 47 am: While India prepares to launch the Polar Satellite Launch Vehicle (See our 10.32 am update), Hema Malini is preparing to launch Ahana Deol. As Juliet. Which makes a change from shilling, alongside mommy and elder sister Eesha, for a brand of water purifier.

    Hema to launch daughter Ahana Deol as 'Juliet'

    10: 45 am: The significance of online media is underscored yet again. Figures available for the first week show a huge 62% rise in the viewership of IPL matches online compared to last year. "A common misconception is that people only watch online from the office. But our stats show that night games have almost as much consumption as day games. The experience allows you to do much more online, including watching highlights of previous matches, and viewers like that," said Rishi Khiani, CEO, Times Internet.

    10:40 am: India may have diverted a warship from the Gulf of Aden to the coast of Somalia in the wake of pirates refusing to release seven of the 15 Indian sailors being held hostage on merchant vessel Asphalt Venture, but no armed or intervention operation is on the cards as of now. "Our prime interest is to save the life of every Indian sailor being held hostage...that is the guiding concern for the government,'' said overseas Indian affairs minister Vayalar Ravi.

    10:35 am:
    Under pressure to unearth black money, the Income Tax department has decided to review all recent property deals to check for use of cash.

    The plan is to start the scrutiny from Delhi and the National Capital Region, comprising Gurgaon and Noida, and subsequently turn it into an all-India exercise.

    Officials in the tax department, who announced the move on Monday, did not elaborate on the period for which the review would be undertaken. However, indications are that transactions starting in 2010-11 would come under the scanner.

    Pagination

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    14 comments

    • theone  •  1 year 1 month ago
      Nice Post Yahoo!

      Single article where you can get all teh India's news. Keep updating!!!
      • !coolze 1 year 1 month ago
        hv u nthng 2 say
    • Abraham  •  1 year 1 month ago
      Amar Singh is a wily and most corrupt in shabby deals and still boasts of very honest politician. He has just escaped the jaws of law in phone tapping case from Courts. Fearing that he may have to go to Jail he withdrew the phone tapping case. Now he challenges Bhushans to prove CD is wrong. Already Truth Labs and another lab in US certified that the CD was fake and Amar Singh should be taken to court by Bhushans as he seem to have collaborated with congress bigwigs to tarnish the image of Bhushans and to sabotage Jan Lokpal Bill with connivance of Sonia Gandhi under he is working now a days after booting by Mulayam Singh. Beware of Digvijays, Sibals, Amar Singhs and more such dirty politicians who are bent upon sabotaging and tarnishing the image of civil society members. More such antics will come to public mind by the time the drafting work is over. Acceptance of the Bill by Parliament will also be doubtful as all these political brokers will derail the process at every stage asking it to be referred to select committee of parliamentarians, judicial reference so forth and so on. Just wait see my fellow Indians how the Jan Lokpal Bill will be subjected to!!
    • raj  •  1 year 1 month ago
      Amarsingh is a man who can manage anything for anyone. He is a role model bad man and dipped in corruption activities. It is high time for Amarsingh to introspect and change his attitude immediately to become a good man or he will grow what he is sowing.
    • Bambooshoots  •  1 year 1 month ago
      Amar Singh is a vela, he has nothing to do after being kicked out of the Samajwadi Party. While in the Samajwadi Party he was Mulayam Singh's coruption man and his job was striking dubious deals, bribing people and doing all the dirty work. People whom he used to display as his friends, like Bachans and Anil Ambani have also distanced themselves from him. It is people like him who are going to try and stop the Lokpal Bill because their whole life has been immersed in corruption.
    • saradha  •  1 year 1 month ago
      Digvijay Singh asked a question - why the politicians are not considered as social society people ? Are oliticians not social ? I feel he should ask the question to himself & get an answer. Well, if I am right - we have least respect for a politician, policeman,& judges/advocates etc. Our experience & day to day developments we read in this country is gradually taking us to such distress level that given a chance we would like to punish all those who are corrupt - unfortunately there are too many corrupt people. We hardly have a choice and we have to live our life.
    • Devraj  •  1 year 1 month ago
      May we request Currupt Congress to leave India for good. @#$%! they have looted India after independence even more than what britishers have done in 200 yrs reign.
      • Boney b 1 year 1 month ago
        lolz. Why you spare BJP ??? Are they sacrosanct? Politicians as a class have failed to deliver the worth. Mostly they are the same, only masks are different. Use one yardstick to measure the all, else you are also a biased and colored citizen.......
    • Ashis  •  1 year 1 month ago
      Dr. Binayak Sen is freed by the order of Supreme Court, it is great news.
    • Ashis  •  1 year 1 month ago
      dr. binayak send is freed by the order of supreme court of india, it is great news.
    • Tarun  •  1 year 1 month ago
      Dear Albert, We all know that PM is a good man and others all are corrupted, how our cool PM control them? We need very strong PM who can control all our dirty politician too.Only good and cool is not sufficient to running the country.He should have a strong supporting voice not always follow the others, and most important part is every politician respect with regard and obey his order honestly.I can understand all dirty politician not care our PM. "Jai Hind"
    • albert  •  1 year 1 month ago
      India in real time.Thumps up to our bold strong and visionary PM Dr Manmohan Sing.Work more talk less this is what our Honarable PM is doing and we all should learn from him.Hope he can lead India for another term with young and upcoming and intelligent leaders around him to keep India on track so we can all enjoy our life in peace and get more united
    • Mohd John Kumar Singh  •  1 year 1 month ago
      SHAME SHAME & THU THU THU to Amar & Dig_vijai type Rajput & Raja. India became slave to foreigners Rule because of these type of people. Such people don't deserve any respect of any Patriotic Indian. Only Chanchas will respect chamchaas and not others. Chamchaas are always dangerous in normal office work. Chamchaas at national level means Danger to nation it self.

      A truly patriotic Indian will respect only Rana Pratap Singh type of Rajput & Raja, Chhatrpati Shivaji type of Marathaa, Nalvaa & Bandaa Bhadur type of Sikh (not the present Lame Duck type p m) who really fought & died for the honor of the country & so on. These national traitors & opportunists don't deserve any respect from aam aadami.
    • Mohd John Kumar Singh  •  1 year 1 month ago
      Amar & dig_Vijai d great. both of these samples of the anti Bharat party have been chamcha since ages. Both claim to b Rajput n or Raja. One Rajput has been shouting YaaaaAliii in parliament house to pl Mulla mulayam. Mulla mulayam was also keeping him because he was said to be managing Khrcha, Parcha & Charcha of Mulla mulayam by corrupt means He is said to have saved even Senior Amitabh from fin problem & used his services to speak in favor of smajwaadi party.

      India became Gulaam to foreigners rule only because of Raja like Dig Enemy Vijay singh. these type of Raja actually always worked against the national interest due to their personal vested interests. He is allergic to any person or party which is inside-outside means totally patriotic. These Rajas didn't do any thing more than AYYAASHEE at the cost of aam aadmi. They are the people who really exploited aam aadami. Shame & thu thu thu on such persons.
    • Sonjoy  •  1 year 1 month ago
      Amar Singh has all his fingers in the wrong whole at the wrong time ans place.He needs cleanseing for his own good.He cannot be a chamcha for the corrupt groups,at this rate he will become the championion for the corrupt
    • Namasivayam  •  1 year 1 month ago
      More and more Amar Singhs will come out of their dens to sabotage the noble cause of Lok pal bill.And very difficult to escape from their clutche